Managing Teams Through Change | Episode 2 | Recruitment and Beyond Podcast

 

 

Managing teams through change when times are stressful or difficult is one of the biggest challenges facing leaders. 

Whether that is through a recession, a global pandemic or perhaps a challenge internally, be it a takeover or redundancy. All of these situations are challenging, but given the right advice and a strong mental attitude, bringing your teams through the other side is possible. 

Natalie and Ewan talk about the importance of transparency and clear communication. There are no issues with being honest and upfront about the business's challenges. People will find it easier to manage bump in the road or difficult news when they know what's coming. 

There is a challenge when managing teams through change that you can tell them too much, but in reality, without giving away company secrets, it is so important to give as much information as possible. 

Other approaches include reverse mentoring, where senior executives spend time with junior employees to understand their challenges, helping them adapt their approach to change management. 

Also, checking in with your team, and spending time finding out how they are is crucial. While you want to give them busines critical information, you also need to spend some time finding out how they are managing the change happening to the company. 

Find out more in the latest episode and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast.

 

Episode Transcript

Please find the episode transcript below:

Ewan:
Hi, and welcome along to episode two of our podcast, Recruitment and Beyond. I'm Ewan Anderson.

Natalie:
And I'm Natalie here.

Ewan:
And today we're talking about managing a team through a stressful time, whether it's recession or just a challenging time for your business.
Natalie, do you want to give us a wee bit of insight into, I suppose, how you go about what are the challenges that companies are facing, particularly we don't know if it's going to be a recession or not, if we're in recession or not. So what are the challenges that people maybe face when they're trying to get their team through that process?

Natalie:
I guess the biggest test for everybody has been the pandemic and dealing and managing change in those particular times. And I guess the good managers have stood out during these times, but also adapting to a whole new world of being able to see everybody every day, to having to manage teams remotely and to manage maybe other issues that are happening with individuals as well, both personally or in work or managing poor performance in uncertain times as well.

Ewan:
Yeah, no, it's a challenge, isn't it? I mean I suppose, what are some of the strategies that might help some of these businesses to do that? Is it things like improving employee engagement? Is that sort of thing, does that help? Does that kind of break that barrier down so that people know when times are tough? We're upfront, we're being clear with you. Is that the sort of thing that people implement?

Natalie:
Absolutely. Transparency's real important during these times. And actually there's no danger in saying time's a wee bit tough at the moment because actually that's where sometimes you might be able to get really good problem solving from your workforce as well. Employee engagement has been something that cannot be missed during COVID. You're missing a check if you're not doing it. So what are we doing to engage, but where is the test? How are individuals feeling? Are we asking them? Are we having a coffee with them even remotely to find out how they're feeling or is it something maybe a wee bit more formal and it's an engagement surveys and are we scoring those? How are we measuring and benchmarking those? What should they be? But also maybe touching on things such as mental health, massive area at the moment, coming out of the pandemic, but also during the pandemic, but also treating people as individuals.

Ewan:
Okay. Is there too far or too much information that companies would give or is it a case of being as transparent as possible? I mean, there's always that fear of we can tell people so much, but we can't tell them too much. Or is it a case that you should just try and be as open as possible with your team?

Natalie:
It's a tough one, isn't it?

Ewan:
It overwhelms.

Natalie:
It's always discussed at board meetings. What are we telling the staff? What are we not? I guest there's a whole balance and uncertain times with managing safety in terms of people feeling safe and secure and working and maybe not looking elsewhere because everybody's going through a turmoil and a hardship and also reality. So giving someone, if the worst was to happen and there has to be certain changes made within the business, it's always a bit of a downfall when it's a surprise to individuals and maybe they're not so much engaged with the business case because they thought everything was fine and dandy. So it's that balance between safety and reality for me.

Ewan:
To get that, you mentioned it kind of, the innovation that comes out of these situations when you really do engage with people and ask them for solutions and say to them, "Look, we're being open and honest here. This is the challenge that the business faces. Any ideas are welcome." Is that the sort of thing that people are maybe implementing and that being quite successful?

Natalie:
Yeah. If you look on a larger scale, Heineken for example. Well known, everyone knows Heineken. So what they've done is they're doing reverse mentoring. So a junior employee would go and sit with the chief exec and vice versa. And actually that maybe gives them a good insight into some business decisions and maybe some examples of things that they maybe should think about on uncertain times. It will work for certain organizations, it might not work for others or be welcome, in fact, for others. But certainly when you're seeing about that, then it's certainly things that easy enough to make happen and businesses might be up for doing.

Ewan:
Yeah. Quite fancy that I think. That'd be interesting.

Natalie:
Maybe not maybe to give some feedback but then drift away back into your other role might be better.

Ewan:
Is the challenge being for people to get that engagement when they're remote obviously, and then help people with performance as well? Have managers, good managers, come to the top and being able to inspire their teams remotely as well as helping them along and helping their mental health, I suppose, is that?

Natalie:
It's been a huge learning, hasn't it, for people because mainly we have not had remote workers and certainly on the scale and in the capacity that we've had, and we're still trying to motivate, engage, but also, are you doing okay? Yeah, so people are having the business conversations, but are they actually having that five minutes in the week? Are you okay? What are you doing to look after yourself? Are you getting enough time to get away from your desk and go run or find out what mentally is good for you? A run for some people might be the worst thing ever. Mentally it might actually destroy. But for some people a walk with their dog or being able to pick up their child from school.

All those things are very underestimated, but can add such value and make someone feel really part of that business as well. But I guess during the difficult times, how do you manage? So having good managers, having good IT and control systems in place to see what people are doing. But we're not here to micromanage people. We're here to empower them during these times and give them some empowerment that they can go away and they can make decisions, good or bad. They can do things for their selves as well, remotely or in an office as well.

Ewan:
I suppose there's the mental health and the physical health. It's quite important, I suppose, when you're going through that challenge because people are stressed, they're thinking, "Am I going to lose my job?" Or, "Is the company going under?" That sort of thing. Is there a moral imperative for companies to just help people through that and manage their mindset, I suppose?

Natalie:
Absolutely. I think the start is very important. The word "stress" is used a lot. Stress can actually be quite a good thing as well. And in tough times, the people that have been stressed maybe have really been able to perform under great pressure. So I guess it's when it becomes that unhealthy stress. But my worry and our worry for beyond HR at the moment is our managers able to identify that. Do they know their teams well enough to say, "Actually Ewan's having a really off day." Or, "There's something more that's wrong with you and we need to reach out and help him and signpost him maybe to some help and support or just check in and make sure he's actually just doing okay," Is probably the biggest thing.

Ewan:
I suppose in bigger organizations there's more managers able to just pick up the phone. In smaller organizations maybe that's quite a pressure on the team. Is there any tools out there or things that people are using that maybe just allow them to do that, or is it more of a case of just pick up the phone and try?

Natalie:
Yeah, absolutely. Every business model's different, isn't it? Every individual's different as well. Seeing someone, even though they're remotely jumping on a teams call or a zoom's call, has more power than a telephone conversation. If you are worried about someone, you're maybe not going to get the true extent over the phone, but if you're having a snapshot of their day and seeing them in action, you might be able to see Ewan's not particularly looking great, or his body language, his behaviors might give us much more than a telephone conversation would. Or I guess throughout the pandemic, the people that were starting to struggle and it's not a sign, but it could also be a telltale, the cameras were off and more cameras were starting to go off.

Ewan:
That was something, yeah.

Natalie:
People couldn't be bothered or weren't in the mental space of being able to get up and be there. But I guess that's a good telltale sign of if someone doing okay as well.

Ewan:
Yeah. So I guess part of it is about helping people manage their own health there. Where's the kind of responsibility lie? Because obviously you can put on classes and so on, but people maybe build up bad habits when times are tough, whether that's how they eat or they're sleeping as much as anything else. Where does the responsibility lie, I suppose?

Natalie:
Absolutely. We're not always going to be able to put on those yoga and meditation classes, but I guess having a snapshot and having those conversations with someone to understand what's good for them, what's bad for them. Certainly looking at maybe wellbeing weeks in the month where we can encourage a lot of, for example, employee assistance programs. It's not just about the very doom and gloom day, depression, stress, but there might be just improving and just pointing out to individuals in terms of this sounds like are you okay? Those conversations that need to happen.

But an individual will, I guess maybe start confiding if you've got that certain relationship with the manager that maybe they have started developing bad habits. And I guess for the employer, for me it's more about how do we help them get out of that habit? Yeah, how do we identify? It'd be great if we have that relationship that can identify there's something wrong with you and how do we help him get out of that bad habit. Now that doesn't go as far as obviously putting something in front or stop eating chocolate at your desk at three o'clock in the day. That's completely down to the employee. But to be able to help and support when they do shout and cry for help is also absolutely our responsibility.

Ewan:
I suppose ongoing guidance, isn't it, to be able to say, "Look, we're not telling you to stop eating chocolate at three o'clock, but here's some advice and support and maybe it'll help you."

Natalie:
Yeah, or what does a good day look like? These sort of things. Or you'll hear about companies that are supporting by providing fruit throughout the day for companies or water machines and just maybe focusing on different healthy options or initiatives that you have or pointing people in the direction. But then again, maybe chocolate at three o'clock in the day is good for you and good for your productivity, but maybe not so much for someone else. But it's having the ability to empower someone to make those decisions for themselves, but knowing the company's there if they need help or reach a point where they think something's happening too often, for example, and maybe need to reach out for a wee bit of help and support.

Ewan:
And things like productivity through a challenging time. Obviously companies, there's an uncertainty there. There's a drive for business, but there's obviously you want to get as much business done as possible. Is there a balance to be had, I suppose, in terms of driving productivity? You kind of touched on that actually, about during that tough time, people are almost working harder because they want to keep working and keep driving themselves.

Natalie:
Absolutely.

Ewan:
Do businesses need to be aware of how to just balance that and make sure that there's no burnout? I suppose the burnout is probably a big thing. And that was definitely through the pandemic, wasn't it?

Natalie:
They need to see the pattern. They need to see if this email's fine about 10 o'clock at night, for example. But I guess that was a difficult one because people were having to maybe work in a more flexible way. So yeah, they might be sending emails at 10 o'clock at night, but they might have had a two hour walk during the day and it's good for them to work at that time if business allows. So it's managers. It's back again to managers understanding and knowing their team and allowing employees to be able to speak freely and say, "I'm really struggling at the moment," or, "My workload is too much." It's having that ability and that relationship with the line manager or above for someone to be able to have that open and honest conversation.

But I guess people did. A lot of people did work harder during the pandemic. They were fearful of their job. They were fearful of the business and they wanted to have, it was survival mode for a lot of businesses, wasn't it? And we thank those employees for doing that because some businesses might not have survived. But what's happened at the other end, we cannot continue that burnout and it's making sure, but we need to have empowered employees that they can tell us if they're burnout as well.

Ewan:
Yeah. Trust I think is a big thing, isn't it? It's being able to trust your employees. This has been a big thing for flexible working, but being able to trust your employees to say, "Look, I know you'll take a two hour run in the middle of the day or two hour walk, whatever, but actually I know you'll be doing some work later on at night." And I suppose managers being able to trust that and not feel like they need to be on slack or they need to be on teams or whatever, right through the day because it's just not the way people's lifestyles have changed quite a bit, haven't it?

Natalie:
Absolutely. It won't be how every business operates. Don't get me wrong, but for the ones that are able to have that flexibility, people really underestimate flexibility. When people are now applying for jobs, they may be looking at, is it home working? Is it hybrid? What is it? Maybe more so than a salary these days as well. It's very important to them so that whoever window in the afternoon might be worth much more than maybe an increase in salary, et cetera. But everybody's a complete individual.

Ewan:
And that, I suppose that comes back to productivity, doesn't it? Which is kind of what we touched on at the start about through our recession or through a tough time, a challenging time managing team is using the tools that you've got, whatever that might be, to understand how productive somebody's being, I suppose. And that's a sign of a good manager, isn't it?

Natalie:
Yeah, absolutely. It's not micromanaging. Sitting back. You trust that you have got the right people and the right roles to do the right jobs that you don't have to be monitoring. You don't have to be checking if they're on teams. You trust them to know that they're doing a really good job and they're working really hard for you. For me, that's the dream. But how do we get there? It doesn't work. And I guess through new teams, through lots of levers and lots of, there's different challenges with that, but the more that someone in a stable team, then we empower people.

Ewan:
And is it constantly learning as a manager so that you know what works for your team and you know what works for the individuals? So when they're working away that this person will work really hard during the day, but once it comes to five o'clock, there's no emails. Whereas the other person might be some time in the middle of the day just to go and pick up the kids or whatever, but at 10 o'clock at night, send an email if you need, I'll be able to answer it.

Natalie:
Yeah, absolutely.

Ewan:
And that trust as a manager is something that's really, it takes a while to build up, doesn't it? I suppose you can't go into a new team and just expect everybody to trust you and they'll be able to come with to you with your challenges.

Natalie:
Yeah, it's a sad day, but I go off the motto of trust unless otherwise, unless they do something. Other business owners might disagree with that and they don't trust until it's given. But for me it's trust and I'm trying to embed this trust people, unless there's something that happens because people will want to work for you and work hard for you. If it's your business, if you can get 80% of the love and passion for your role, then great, they won't have that a hundred percent because you're the founder, you're the business owner. But if you can get people maybe at that 80%, then you've really done a good job to get people there. But trust unless otherwise. Most people do want to work and do want to work hard.

Ewan:
That's good. Okay. So is it about actually manager showing a bit of empathy to their team and really understanding the different needs? You touched on this I think maybe in the last podcast about personalizing a lot of this and making sure that something works for one person will not be the same for the other. Is that the case?

Natalie:
Absolutely. Empathy requires a certain amount of emotional intelligence as well. And some managers are focused on the job rather than the human aspect. But if we can start to drill down and get some of that empathy, then that will set a manager well. But that's not just a switch on and switch off. You're either empathetic or you're not. And we do have a lot of work to get those that are not up to that certain stage, but getting an individual for who they are and what they are will stage in a good stands for moving forward. So as a takeaway, I would say that assess yourself and is there a certain level of empathy there? Asking someone how their day is, and I know you're having a hard time at the moment, and are you doing okay? Can pay a lot more for productivity than you ever imagined it to be.

Ewan:
Yeah. Just actually asking the question.

Natalie:
Just actually asking the question and showing a bit of interest and are you doing okay? Or even on the flip side, a thank you. A thank you as well. Everyone worked so hard during the pandemic, but how many people said thank you? And actually for some people that's enough to make someone work even harder.

Ewan:
Right. Okay, thanks. Well listen again, we've talked about a lot. So as usual, we'll kind of give people three takeaways. So what are your three takeaways for managing in a challenging time?

Natalie:
First takeaway would be all about embracing uncertainty. It's natural as a business, we're going to go through that so embrace it. And that's maybe where solutions will arise. Treat everyone as individuals. And the third takeaway would be balance that safety, but reality as well. And uncertain times where we maybe do need to make some changes.

Thanks for listening. Make sure you subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five star review.

Ewan:
And if you're watching on YouTube, like and subscribe. And if there are any topics you'd like us to discuss, just get in touch.