In this episode of Recruitment and Beyond, Ewan is joined by Julie Moulsdale, founder of Perceptive Communicators, for a practical conversation about internal communications and the part it plays in building a strong workplace culture.

With 20 years running Perceptive and 15 years before that working with brands including IBM, PwC and RBS Group, Julie has seen first-hand what happens when internal communications is treated as an afterthought. She explains why it's almost impossible to over-communicate during change, what leaders should say when they can't yet tell the whole story, and how to close the gap between your employer brand and what employees actually experience.

The conversation also covers crisis communications, building goodwill before you need it, and three priorities for HR teams looking to build a stronger internal communications strategy. If you work in HR, lead a team or want an internal communications podcast with practical takeaways rather than theory, this episode is well worth a listen.

Listen to the full episode below, then read our guide to internal communications strategy for HR managers [link to blog] for the key takeaways.

The Comms Behind Great Culture Transcript

Ewan (00:04):
Hi, and welcome back to the Recruitment and Beyond podcast. We are joined today by Julie Millsdale, who is the founder of Perceptive Communicators. Julie, great to have you with us.
Julie (00:15):
Lovely to be here, Ewan. Thanks so much for the opportunity.
Ewan (00:19):
I'm really looking forward to this today because, as comms professionals, we both work with a lot of teams, and communication is such a vital part of the whole process in terms of driving your team forward, driving your business forward, and ensuring that everybody is on the same page. But it's one of those things that's so often missed and perhaps not even focused on as much as some of the other elements of business. So I'm really looking forward to this today.
Julie, do you want to tell us a little bit about Perceptive and your journey to where you are today?
Julie (00:47):
Sure. First of all, thanks very much for the opportunity, Ewan.
I started Perceptive 20 years ago. We're celebrating 20 years of impact with our clients and our team, which is kind of incredible.
I spent the first 15 years of my career working with global brands like IBM, PwC and RBS Group, and it was fantastic training and a really great grounding in how big brands achieve their goals using communication.
Often, we would work with external consultancies. Some of the top companies were great to a certain extent, but quite honestly, a lot of it was style over substance. The team that you saw at the pitch wasn't necessarily the team that actually delivered the activity. The other thing that annoyed me was that they weren't specialists.
The last team I worked with were talking to me about mortgages at RBS, then they were going to talk to L'Oréal about lipstick and Renault about cars.
Julie (01:53):
 And I just thought, actually, that we were really missing that depth and focus on commercial goals. It was more about, "What can we do to win an award?" rather than, "What can we do to make a difference to your business?"
I felt there was a real gap in the market for a consultancy that was specialist, expert, and truly focused on achieving goals.

About this time, 20 years ago, I spoke to quite a few people in the industry and asked them about it. They said, "Absolutely not, Julie. It's far too narrow. You're putting all your eggs in one basket. It'll never work."
They felt that commercial model simply wouldn't work.
But I knew in my gut that I needed to try it. It was like an itch. I never wanted a hundred-person business.
Julie (02:46):
I just wanted a relatively small business, maybe 10 to 15 people, but one that was really good. A business that genuinely cared about its clients and its team, bringing all the professionalism, accountability and best practices from the big brands, while maintaining that personal touch as well.
So that's where Perceptive started, and I'm really glad to see that 20 years on we're still here and absolutely thriving.
Ewan (03:15):
Yeah, brilliant.
Let's go into internal communications and start there. In your experience over the last little while, what's the biggest mistake people make when it comes to internal comms? Where do they typically go wrong?
Julie (03:32):
First of all, I would say that communication is something everyone thinks they can do really well. Maybe they can, but maybe they don't realise the biases they have or that they're only looking at things from a certain perspective.
Over my career, I've worked with a lot of great leaders who are brilliant communicators. However, they often forget that their perspective isn't necessarily the perspective of everyone else in the organisation.
They also forget that they have access to lots of information and understand far more than people elsewhere in the business.
One of the key lessons I've learned is that you need to over-communicate, particularly when organisations are going through change. Over the years, we've advised businesses that were restructuring, making redundancies, or even doing fantastic things.
Julie (04:33):
Because the leadership team has heard something so many times, they assume everyone else has as well and is fully informed.
One of the big lessons is that if it's an important message, an important decision or an important change, it's almost impossible to over-communicate.
Another common mistake is treating communication as an afterthought. Decisions are often made without considering the communication implications. Yet communication has such a significant impact on an organisation's reputation.
When it's done properly, employees can become incredible ambassadors for the organisation, even during difficult times, provided they're brought along on the journey and treated honestly.
Another lesson I've learned is that leaders, particularly those who are naturally open communicators, often struggle with not being able to tell the whole story.
Julie (05:39):
So often they'll go into denial or try to bury their head in the sand. They worry that it's better to say nothing than to say the wrong thing.
Sometimes it's about telling them, "Look, this is the information we can share right now. We're still working through the rest of it."
If that's genuinely the case, it's absolutely okay to say that.
It's okay to explain that there's more information to come, provided you follow through on that promise and update your team as soon as information becomes available.
Doing that builds trust.
Communication plays a huge role in that trust journey with employees, and it's often overlooked.
Ewan (06:31):
Yeah, I mean, I guess a lot of it goes back to the actual strategy and values of your business. If you're committed to being an open and honest organisation, that naturally shapes how you communicate. But I suppose a lot of people think internal communications is simply a newsletter, a team update, or something similar.
How do you go about changing that mindset? Does it link back to what you were talking about there in terms of being an open and honest organisation?
Julie (07:00):
Yeah, absolutely.

I think it comes back to what you were saying about the organisation's strategy. If you want to be an attractive employer, we all talk about the war for talent and how difficult it can be to attract and retain great employees.
What I often find is that organisations overlook their employees as a secret turbocharger for their employer reputation. Employees can be a real competitive advantage.
Sometimes employees don't feel empowered to advocate for the organisation. They might feel restricted about what they can share on platforms like LinkedIn, or they may not see themselves as having a role to play in telling the organisation's story. I'm not talking about official spokesperson roles. I simply mean talking positively and authentically about what it's like to work there.
Values are important, but behaviour trumps words every single time.
Julie (08:01):
We're a relatively small organisation compared with some of the larger businesses I've worked for in the past, which perhaps makes things a little easier. In smaller organisations, it's almost like a hothouse environment. Anything that's going well, or not going well, tends to have a disproportionate impact.
It's important to remember that values shouldn't simply be handed down; people need to be involved in shaping them.
For example, we used to have a set of values, but now we have what we call our A-Player Manifesto. It guides every decision we make, whether that's recruitment, client work, or business strategy.
It's a one-page document that defines how we do things around here. It influences everything from recruitment through to one-to-one meetings. Involving employees in creating and living that manifesto has been really important.
Ewan (09:12):
Yeah, I like that. A manifesto. That's a really interesting way of putting it. We have a set of values, but a manifesto feels a bit more tangible and easier to communicate.
So what does that look like practically? Obviously you have your own approach within Perceptive, but you also advise a lot of organisations. Do you have some practical tips for listeners who are thinking about their communication strategy and how to implement it effectively?
Julie (09:46):
Definitely.
Even if an organisation doesn't have a formal internal communications strategy, communication should be integrated into everything you do. Too often strategies exist on a shelf and aren't connected to day-to-day operations.
Think about your regular meetings, strategy updates and business priorities. How are those being communicated? How do employees know what the organisation's priorities are, and how do they understand their own role within them?
Communication is often viewed from a top-down perspective. Yet we regularly hear stories about a new chief executive spending their first 90 days walking around the business, listening to staff and hearing views from the shop floor.
The question is: are they still doing that after 365 days?
Julie (10:52):
Communication has to be a two-way process.
I know that's not always easy. We work with organisations that have multiple sites, shift patterns and dispersed teams. But it starts with putting yourself in the shoes of the person receiving the message.
Ask yourself: if I were hearing this for the first time, what would I think?
Then consider the organisation's wider goals. If you're trying to grow the business, it's critical that you retain your best people and remain attractive to new talent.
Bring your team into the conversation. Involve employee representatives. Ask them what good looks like. And rather than creating a plan and leaving it there, make sure somebody is accountable for it and review progress regularly, even if that's only once a quarter.
People can become overly focused on grand communication initiatives. They think they need a roadshow or a weekly video from the chief executive.
In my experience, little and often works much better.
Ewan (11:56):
Yeah, that's really interesting. Thinking about communication from the recipient's perspective rather than the sender's perspective makes a lot of sense.
Not everyone consumes information in the same way. There isn't a one-size-fits-all approach.
You might have weekly communications, a monthly update and some face-to-face engagement. There needs to be a degree of overlap because not everybody reads the newsletter, not everybody watches the CEO update, and not everybody engages with information in the same way.
It's about mixing things up, isn't it?
Julie (12:37):
Definitely.
It's also about considering where leaders get the best return on their time.
Yes, they could record a video message, but compare that with spending the same amount of time walking around the business and speaking directly to employees.
You don't need a massive agenda or a polished presentation. Simply being visible and having conversations with people can be incredibly powerful.
That visibility, accessibility and willingness to listen is, in my view, one of the most underused opportunities available to leaders.
Ewan (13:11):
Yeah, that two-way aspect is so important.
It leads nicely into employer branding. How do organisations close the gap between what they say externally to attract people and what employees actually experience internally?
How do you ensure there's consistency between the employer brand and the reality?
Julie (13:34):
I don't want this to sound like motherhood and apple pie because if it was easy, everyone would be doing it brilliantly.
But culture is ultimately what employees experience every day.
Different employees will have different experiences and different perspectives. That's why it's important to ask them directly.
What do they enjoy? What do they value? What could we have done differently?
We're all capable of improving and I think that improvement mindset is really important.
In our own A-Player Manifesto, nobody gets criticised for saying, "We could have done that differently." The important thing is that we learn from it and improve next time.
It's about understanding what employees value, identifying where the gaps are, and creating an environment where people feel safe speaking honestly about what isn't working.
That takes courage, especially if an organisation hasn't traditionally operated that way.

Julie (14:44):
That takes a certain amount of bravery, particularly if the culture hasn't really been like that up until now.
Sometimes it's worth bringing in an independent third party. We often carry out employee research, and it can take one or two rounds before people genuinely trust that their comments aren't simply going to be passed straight back to the management team.
Typically, we'll start with a quantitative survey, usually conducted online, and then follow that up with more in-depth research. I have an amazing colleague who is incredibly skilled at getting under the skin of what people are really saying. She conducts telephone interviews, and people often open up to her in a way they perhaps wouldn't with an internal HR representative.
As a result, we uncover really valuable insights that might otherwise remain hidden. Sometimes having that slightly more objective and detached perspective can make a huge difference.
Ewan (15:47):
A lot of communication naturally comes from the person leading the organisation. But what if you're not that person? What if you're not naturally a great communicator?
Is it okay to work with the rest of your leadership team to help communicate those messages? Not everybody is comfortable standing in front of people or delivering updates.
We've talked about the importance of leadership driving communication and setting the tone. But if communication isn't necessarily a leader's forte, is it acceptable for them to rely on other members of the leadership team rather than always being the face of the message?
Julie (16:36):
I would always recommend that people play to their strengths and build a really strong team around them.
There may well be a deputy or senior leader who's a natural communicator, and that's absolutely fine. However, I'd encourage a combination of voices rather than completely handing communication over to someone else.
In any high-profile business situation, people will often read meaning into things that isn't necessarily there. So it can be powerful for the leader to provide the context and explain what something means for the organisation before introducing another member of the team to go into the detail.
For example, the leader might say:
"John has been a fantastic part of this project. Let me explain why this matters to the organisation, and then John will take you through the detail."
I think that's a really effective approach.
I've worked with dozens of leaders over the years. Some people are naturally gifted communicators and some aren't.
Julie (17:38):
In my experience, it's about helping those who don't naturally enjoy communication build their confidence and skills.
We specialise in sectors such as the built environment, science and innovation, and leisure. In the built environment especially, there's often a bit of a tall poppy syndrome. People don't want to be seen as being too big for their boots.
I think women across many sectors can experience something similar.
Within science, innovation and technology, people are often trained to think very analytically. Sometimes they feel they have to answer every possible question or communicate as if they're writing an academic paper, sharing every detail all at once.
But communication isn't about saying everything. It's about identifying the three key messages people need to hear, anticipating the likely questions, and being prepared to answer those clearly and confidently.
Ewan (18:34):
Yeah, so it's one of those situations where you should absolutely play to your strengths, but equally, if communication isn't one of your strengths, it's worth investing some time in improving it.
People naturally look to leaders for clarity and reassurance. If communication isn't something that comes naturally, it's still worth developing because it's such an important part of leadership.
Julie (18:55):
Definitely.
It's particularly important when difficult news has to be delivered because that's when leaders really set the tone.
Every organisation goes through peaks and troughs. The economy fluctuates, markets change, and businesses are affected by that. If you've got a good team around you, you want to retain those people through both the good times and the difficult times.
Communication plays a huge role in that. You want people to feel engaged throughout the journey. You want communication to be genuinely two-way.
I would say this because I'm a communicator, but I genuinely believe it's at the heart of building engaged, resilient organisations.
And particularly when things become difficult, fear begins to creep in at every level of an organisation.
Ewan (19:55):
Yeah, and that's really interesting.
This isn't actually one of the questions we had planned, but picking up on something you mentioned earlier: if you don't communicate, there's a void, and people naturally fill that void themselves.
Even when you don't have all of the answers, or there isn't much new information to share, is it important to keep communicating simply to stop misinformation and speculation from taking hold?
Julie (20:29):
Absolutely.
Again, it comes back to perspective.
Leaders often know everything that's going on, or at least far more than someone working on the shop floor. To them, the situation may seem very clear. They know what's happening and what the next steps are.
The employees don't have that perspective.
So the question becomes: what information can you share?
You may not be able to tell people everything, and that's perfectly understandable. But you should think carefully about what you can communicate.
I've been involved in many situations where there was a gap in communication, and people inevitably filled that vacuum themselves. Usually, when that happens, you lose control of the message.
That sounds slightly authoritarian, but it isn't. It's simply the reality that organisations need to manage communications carefully.
You need to think about the different audiences you're trying to reach.
We often describe communications as being like an onion. You start from the inside and work your way out.
Julie (21:25):
For example, we're currently working with a client that's going through organisational change.
Before communicating externally, we needed to ensure the team understood what was happening and felt informed about it.
If you get that right, employees become ambassadors for the message rather than recipients of it.
Ewan (21:47):
That's really interesting because it leads nicely into crisis communications.
You're almost describing a crisis scenario already. If something happens, whatever that situation might be, you start internally and build the narrative from there.
Obviously, it isn't always possible to control events when a crisis happens, but generally speaking, is that the right approach? Make sure everyone internally understands what's happening first and then build outward from there?
Julie (22:13):
Yes, generally speaking.
Earlier in my career, I handled a significant amount of crisis communications work, and today crisis communications remains one of our specialist areas.
That can involve anything from employee disputes and customer complaints through to, heaven forbid, serious accidents or incidents.
Every organisation will encounter problems at some point. What matters most isn't necessarily the problem itself, but how the organisation responds to it.
That's what ultimately shapes reputation.
In 99 cases out of 100, employees are one of the most important audiences you need to consider.
There are some exceptions. For example, employment tribunal proceedings can be very difficult because there are legal constraints around what can and can't be discussed. Quite rightly, there are privacy considerations for everyone involved.
But in most situations, employees should be a key part of your communication strategy.
Julie (23:28):
One of the biggest challenges is that most organisations only think about crisis communications when they're already in the middle of a crisis.
That's just human nature.
But you can't manufacture goodwill when you suddenly need it. You have to build that goodwill in advance.
We've worked with organisations that have brought us in during a crisis and have very little existing profile or positive reputation to draw upon.
We help them through the immediate issue, but afterwards we often have a conversation about the importance of proactive reputation-building.
Because if people already know who you are, trust what you do and understand your values, then dealing with a difficult situation becomes significantly easier.
Something will eventually go wrong in every organisation.
The important thing is having a process, a plan and the relationships in place before that happens.
Ewan (24:38):
So what's the most common mistake you see in crisis communications? What are the sorts of things you're trying to guard against?
Julie (24:49):
I would say there isn't just one mistake. There are probably three.
Ewan (24:54):
Yeah.
Julie (24:56):
The first is denial.
Often when organisations find themselves in a crisis, they say, "Oh, it'll be tomorrow's chip paper." That's a phrase we hear quite a lot.
The reality is that if the issue isn't dealt with appropriately, it can grow into something much bigger.
It's easy to dismiss a problem at the outset, but organisations need to recognise when something genuinely requires attention.
A lot of crises begin with a media enquiry. It's important to remember that journalists are simply doing their job. It can feel very personal when you're on the receiving end of difficult questions, but it isn't personal from their perspective.
You can criticise the publication or the journalist, but ultimately they're carrying out their role. Their priorities are different from yours.
There will always be issues in organisations. What matters is how you respond to them.
Julie (25:56):
Most audiences, whether they're employees, customers, or other stakeholders, are generally reasonable.
If you've made a mistake, it's often better to acknowledge it, explain what you're doing to fix the problem and be open about the next steps.
Sometimes it's not that straightforward because there may be legal considerations that prevent you from commenting in full.
But generally speaking, honesty goes a long way.
To the first issue is denial. Organisations often put their heads down and hope things will simply disappear.
The second issue is that some organisations believe that if they keep a low profile, they'll somehow avoid problems altogether.
But this comes back to something we've already discussed. If you don't build goodwill during the good times, you won't have any goodwill to rely upon during the difficult times.
Julie (26:54):
That's why proactively building a positive reputation is so important.
And it doesn't have to involve a multi-million-pound marketing campaign.
It's about asking yourself: who would support us if something went wrong?
Think about the people who may become advocates or influential voices.
Do your local MSPs or MPs know who you are? Do they understand the contribution your organisation makes? If you've just announced 200 new jobs in their constituency, have you made them aware of it?
Have you communicated your successes internally so that employees understand the positive impact the organisation is having?
It's also important during a crisis to be very clear about who can and cannot speak publicly on behalf of the organisation.
Julie (27:54):
Even board members can be an overlooked audience.
Sometimes a board member, with entirely good intentions, may start having conversations about a crisis in a defensive way. Before long, that can begin to undermine the agreed messaging and create confusion.
The third common mistake is believing you can manage everything entirely on your own.
Organisations sometimes try to control and contain a crisis internally when what they really need is external advice and independent expertise.
Even very experienced leaders can struggle to remain objective when they're in the middle of a difficult situation.
Having someone external who can provide a detached perspective and challenge assumptions is incredibly valuable.
An external adviser can often say, "Here's how this is likely to be perceived," or "Here's what public opinion will probably focus on."
That perspective can be difficult to hear at times, but it's essential.
Julie (29:05):
There may be some short-term discomfort, but it usually leads to much better long-term outcomes.
Ewan (29:10):
I think we've touched on several really important areas there: internal communications, employer branding, leadership communication and crisis communication.
If you were speaking directly to an HR team and had three key pieces of advice to help them start building stronger communications, what would those be?
Julie (29:33):
First, communication is absolutely central to achieving almost everything within an organisation.
Don't treat it as an afterthought. Make it part of the process from the very beginning.
Second, don't be afraid to ask employees what they actually think.
We regularly survey both our clients and our own team.
Our clients have given us a world-class Net Promoter Score of 93. To be completely honest, when we measured it again this year, I was slightly nervous because we'd achieved 92 previously and I thought that was an incredible score.
I'm incredibly fortunate to have such a fantastic team delivering for our clients.
We've also worked closely with Inspiring Workplaces and have surveyed our employees as part of that programme. We've been recognised among the Top 50 Inspiring Workplaces in the UK and Ireland in both 2024 and 2026.
Julie (30:56):
Recognition like that is valuable for several reasons.
It's great for the business, but it's also motivating for employees and appealing for future recruits.
Sometimes HR teams assume that good work will simply speak for itself.
I would encourage them to think about how they can showcase and celebrate the great work that's already happening.
And thirdly, remember that we're in a people business.
Surround yourself with great people.
I've been incredibly fortunate. Two years after founding Perceptive, someone I had previously worked with at RBS joined the business.
My deputy, Leslie Ferguson, has now been with the company for 18 years and leads much of our people strategy.
She's actually on holiday at the moment or I'd have suggested you should be interviewing her instead.
Julie (32:02):
She's fantastic on the people side of the business.
We'll often discuss challenges together and she'll bring a completely different perspective from mine, which is hugely valuable.
We've also invested heavily in developing the rest of our team and actively involving them in discussions and decision-making.
You absolutely need to listen to those views and act on them.
Ewan (32:25):
Yeah, that's great.
We've spoken quite a bit about two-way communication today, and I've certainly come across organisations that are less enthusiastic about gathering employee feedback.
But employees are having those conversations anyway, aren't they?
How important is it to actively seek feedback from your team?
Julie (32:45):
I think it's absolutely vital.
In fact, the feedback that makes us most uncomfortable is often the feedback we need the most.
We work with a number of organisations on a recurring basis, conducting employee engagement surveys every year or every couple of years.
Online surveys are useful, and there are some excellent tools available, but the real value often comes from getting beneath the surface of the responses.
Whether it's through an external consultant or a specialist researcher, taking the time to understand what people really mean by their comments can uncover incredibly valuable insights.
Those insights become the gold nuggets that help shape priorities and drive meaningful cultural change.
Julie (33:58):
Sometimes organisations tell us they're going through a period of change and want to postpone employee research until things have settled down.
Ironically, that's often exactly when they need feedback the most.
Other leaders have said, "I've just joined this organisation and I know there are lots of things I want to improve. I need a benchmark."
I think that's a fantastic approach.
We've recently completed exactly that type of exercise with one client.
Having that baseline allows them to measure progress over time, demonstrate improvements and focus on the areas that really matter to employees.
It's about creating meaningful change that benefits both the organisation and its people.
Ewan (34:36):
Everybody wins.
Julie (34:36):
Exactly.
Ewan (34:37):
And it also demonstrates that you're listening.
You don't necessarily need to implement every suggestion that comes back, but employees need to know they've been heard.
Whether their suggestion is adopted or not, the fact that it's acknowledged is hugely important.
That's really the key thing, isn't it?
Julie (34:56):
Absolutely.
The worst thing you can do is conduct a major piece of research and then do nothing with it.
Ewan (35:03):
It just sits on a shelf.
Julie (35:04):
Exactly.
What we tend to do is provide organisations not only with the research findings, but also with practical recommendations.
Because we have both organisational and research experience, we're often able to help clients prioritise actions and implement changes as well.
That includes communicating what action is being taken in response to feedback.
Ultimately, there needs to be accountability.
When you come back to the organisation a year later, people should be able to see evidence that their feedback has resulted in tangible progress.
Ewan (35:38):
Julie, thank you very much for your time today.
That was fantastic.
It's a topic I'm very passionate about, and I know you are too. It's always fascinating to hear practical advice on how organisations can create an environment that's open, honest and encourages communication at every level.
It's such an important topic for businesses.
Thank you again for joining us.
We'll include your details in the show notes, but where's the best place for listeners to get in touch with you? LinkedIn?

Julie (36:08):
Yes, absolutely.
You can find me on LinkedIn, and Perceptive Communicators is on LinkedIn too.
We also have our website at perceptivecommunicators.co.uk.
We're always happy to speak with organisations about communication because it can be an absolute supercharger for business performance, and it's often overlooked.
Done well, communication can help organisations leapfrog competitors.
We're always focused on the impact communication delivers rather than communication for its own sake.
So yes, I'd be delighted to hear from anyone who thinks we might be able to help.
Ewan (36:40):
Perfect.
Well, thanks again, Julie, and I'm sure we'll catch up again soon.
Julie (36:43):
Thank you very much.
Ewan (36:51):
Thanks for listening to the Recruitment & Beyond podcast.
Hopefully there's been plenty of insight for you to take back to your teams.
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